tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4748832844228334272.post5072598014626858890..comments2024-02-16T01:19:34.964-05:00Comments on The Walk of Words: The Word Box: Sapience vs. SentienceRebekkah Nileshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06684711663696588263noreply@blogger.comBlogger40125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4748832844228334272.post-66888078787975426622021-01-23T04:22:59.611-05:002021-01-23T04:22:59.611-05:00To say that animals don't think and reason is ...To say that animals don't think and reason is not only arrogant, its completely incorrect. Making a choice is the act of thinking and reasoning and animals make choices all the time. I know you've seen it happen. If you say you haven't, you are either not smart enough to understand what you are seeing or you are a liar.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05240390481374945458noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4748832844228334272.post-27728590344664506382019-09-28T21:28:00.527-04:002019-09-28T21:28:00.527-04:00What does reasoning look like on an fMRI? How woul...What does reasoning look like on an fMRI? How would reasoning be different than non reasoning thinking? How do we know for sure that other animals don't reason?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16977492320516568671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4748832844228334272.post-13900938028165091902019-09-11T20:36:29.845-04:002019-09-11T20:36:29.845-04:00everyone attacking lin fails to realize that the w...everyone attacking lin fails to realize that the way people utilize certain words or phrases is reflective of their beliefs and therefor their intelligence. was it wrong to just open his statement with calling the guy a moron? absolutely. but when you're right you're right, and here's a little secret: he's definitely right. and while it's true language is just meant to convey a message and it doesnt necessarily have to be grammatically correct, a misuse of language conveys a lack of understanding within the topic; therefor worthy of criticism, although perhaps not quite as harsh as calling him a moron. personally, i would just call Mandy here mildly dull, but that's just me<br /><br />M. Corvusnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4748832844228334272.post-22064521957123697932019-04-03T13:59:05.087-04:002019-04-03T13:59:05.087-04:00I dunno...i wouldnt simplify sapience to just mea...I dunno...i wouldnt simplify sapience to just mean problem solving. Many birds and mammals can problem solve. People including myself usually notice tjis most on cats and dogs. Do they get jostled into sapience alot from the complexities of navigating human environments? Or do we just observe them way more?<br />Non human primates are the most sapient animals after us. Id grant the other great apes (gorilla, orangutan, chimpanzee, bonobo, perhaps gibbons) sapience. But even if you take something like a macaque, they are constantly problem solving and not just physical problems like how to steal items from tourists at indisn temples lol. Their society is very complex with politics and social norms that seem to require that flash of sapience pretty frequently. In a troop of 100 you gotta know the different statuses and who is which status- (or at the very least, whether each individual you encounter is a higher or lower status than you are)-- based on their matrilineal ties and how many other monkeys they can bring to bear in a conflict. Because I study macaques (not in person yet) i can think of many examples for them. One example occurs when kidnapping. Kidnapping is s social norm on macaque communities. It is common for a adult or even subadult female to kidnap the baby -usually age newborn up to q few mos- of a lower status female. The baby screams and tries to grab mom but once she has him, the mkm cant do anything but follow and patiently wait for kidnapper to get bored (maybe groom her a bit) so when she lets baby go or it breaks free she can grab him. Because it is against their social contract for her to take something from a higher rank female, even her own child! Anyway, watching hours and hours of kidnapping footage, you see how strategic certain kidnappers are at sneakily snatching the newborn from mom teat. Also certain kidnappers seem psychologically sadistic and do it as a political move maybe dangling baby in front of mom and mildly hurting it til it shrieks, because the mom previously offended the monkey noblity and now she is being mind tortured...if she lashes out both her and baby could die! Others have strategies for softening up a resisting baby, complex series of hopping on it then dragging it by tail while running over rocks...most let thr baby go yhee same day but some will hold the baby til it starves to death without moms milk.And even tje more benign kidnappers sneakily come up with ways to catch mom unawares and snatch baby...hard to fo when a baby is attached to mom 24/7 and nursing 50%+ of the time.<br /> Anyway not to go on a monkey tangent lol but macaques are the animal that I observe the most.And they seem to be constantly solving both physical and social problems. Some not all will recognize themself in mirror test and preen or flex in mirror. In this way they are alot like us, lol.<br /> However, what they appear to lack is a "theory of mind" like we have, or if they have one its very nascent. This goes back to what was said about "I think she thinks i think she likes me" having insight into what another individual thinks or desires. I mean they arent just furry little people (though they have very human like faces especially the babies). However because of their social strategy abilities I would say they have nascent capability of this kind or perhaps just potential.<br /> Chimps are far smarter than any dog snd are said to have the general intelligence up to that of 6 yo human.(Perhaps a macaque would be 4yo and a dog or cat or pig around 2?)<br />Just some thoughts...<br />Rhesus Peaceshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09837063598522893769noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4748832844228334272.post-41847932273696478242019-03-21T18:43:56.378-04:002019-03-21T18:43:56.378-04:00Conscious awareness is simply "being aware th...Conscious awareness is simply "being aware that you are aware", isnt it? Like "knowing that you know" or something akin to that.Aurushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14321161795384770231noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4748832844228334272.post-88547399417434283902019-01-30T01:14:58.044-05:002019-01-30T01:14:58.044-05:00Very interesting discussion, I would like to say t...Very interesting discussion, I would like to say that perhaps sapience is the "knowing" that one's life is threatened if a course of action is not taken and sentience the ability to explain what one is feeling. Or is it the other way around? Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12096430999246096413noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4748832844228334272.post-40717756339470809732019-01-21T17:20:28.729-05:002019-01-21T17:20:28.729-05:00Plants, even grass, can give chemical warnings to ...Plants, even grass, can give chemical warnings to other plants in response to stimuli. Doesn't make them sentient.fubukifangirlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16564314841250241297noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4748832844228334272.post-4699773091265426992018-10-08T12:59:00.877-04:002018-10-08T12:59:00.877-04:00I would recommend you all read Blindsight by Peter...I would recommend you all read Blindsight by Peter Watts. It gives a fascinating perspective on awareness, sapience, sentience, etc. https://rifters.com/real/Blindsight.htmPaths Diverginghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13305297858075315258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4748832844228334272.post-25465636254047268512018-03-12T01:36:41.507-04:002018-03-12T01:36:41.507-04:00Ah Lin you must be fun at parties. It's tragic...Ah Lin you must be fun at parties. It's tragic when people fail to realize that colloquial phrases can change the meaning of terms without impacting the nature of the meaning as we see here. Oddly, even if you are technically correct, everyone else was fine with the term meaning it wasn't wrong. Language's sole purpose is to convey a message, so detracting from the message to spout some bull trying to make yourself feel superior just makes you an ass. Also I'd put forth that conscious awareness is distinct enough from awareness to warrant a use of the term. Awareness knows there is a predator you should avoid nearby, conscious awareness knows why you should avoid it. It's not truth vs truthful truth, it's truth vs full truth. Very closely related, but still distinct.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07042047105746608794noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4748832844228334272.post-38639144437532199932018-02-19T20:32:28.084-05:002018-02-19T20:32:28.084-05:00Wow Lin, who pissed in your corn flakes?Wow Lin, who pissed in your corn flakes?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4748832844228334272.post-36526480866590955862017-08-03T23:38:44.058-04:002017-08-03T23:38:44.058-04:00Isn’t it more likely that we humans may never trul...Isn’t it more likely that we humans may never truly know the true depths of animals’ sapience or sentience? What I mean is that animals can't communicate or explain their own emotions or thought process in a detailed way that humans to decipher. Yes, we can stimulate, simulate scenarios and observe animals' responses but without any feedback from those animals how can we be entirely sure whether or not they are truly formulating their response or if they are simply reacting? We know that humans both formulate and react because they can articulate what they were thinking and feeling at any given time. Animals cannot do this so we are forced to simply observe and theorize what they MAY have been thinking or feeling.<br />I am not an expert in any scientific field, whether that be animal behavior, psychology or sociology. But given that animals can never report on these things (unless and until they evolve to a point where they can) we are quite limited when it comes to assigning these attributes. And when we do attempt to make such determinations, the only thing that we can base them on is restricted by what we know about humans.Agent Skullyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13642161970173329018noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4748832844228334272.post-78972868126435903112017-06-28T00:11:01.177-04:002017-06-28T00:11:01.177-04:00Interesting discussion 😁 Sorry I'm so late t...Interesting discussion 😁 Sorry I'm so late to it! 😟<br />I liked John Ringo's explanation in, I believe, his addenda to the Monster Hunter series (originated by the brilliant Larry Correia), Saints and Sinners (set in New Orleans), where Milo explains to a vampire rights-advocating 'professor' that vampires are sentient, but not sapient. Ie, they experience the five senses of sight, hearing, smell, touch & taste, and can learn through their experiences of same, but are incapable of what we designate "higher orders of thinking", including love, compassion, altruism.<br />Just the $0.02 of a former Woman Marine 😉<br />Semper Fi' <br />DMDiamond Mairhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16115254693099445053noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4748832844228334272.post-47652441294363105252017-03-14T12:17:02.388-04:002017-03-14T12:17:02.388-04:00I have a question. Here's a video of a parrot ...I have a question. Here's a video of a parrot chick: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdynRR-x1-Q&t=12m54s <br />Would the chick be called sapient?Trisha Gauravhttps://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-EoYpwPcWG7CliIJE2cDFAnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4748832844228334272.post-16285972400307768122017-03-06T02:28:44.614-05:002017-03-06T02:28:44.614-05:00Let me put it this way: A dog may be sentient in t...Let me put it this way: A dog may be sentient in that it can feel and experience emotions, but it is not sapient because it doesn't know not to run in the middle of the street and can't perceive that danger. In this same vein, an artificial intelligence may be sapient (which is the correct term that movies and TV misuse all the time) because it can think and reason, but it is not sentient because it cannot experience emotion or feel any pain/joy/comfort/etc.Nicolas Javinhttp://facebook.com/nicolasjauvinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4748832844228334272.post-29685365167391061962017-03-04T01:11:27.518-05:002017-03-04T01:11:27.518-05:00"Well maybe sentience is conscious awareness...."Well maybe sentience is conscious awareness."-Written like a true and common moron that is confused with the distinctions of "conscious" and "awareness"...<br /><br />"Consciousness" is composed of "awareness" so the common term, the disgusting modern colloquial phrase :"conscious awareness" is like saying "Thoughtful thinking", or, better yet, "truthful truth".<br /><br />Yes, sentience is a state of awareness, it does denote the patterning of awareness called "consciousness" or being "conscious"...stupid new-age fools litter the Earth, just using words without actually contemplating the nature of them to any significant depth >.< Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13490516402803473723noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4748832844228334272.post-47288571039325842852017-01-08T11:45:47.251-05:002017-01-08T11:45:47.251-05:00Same for Koko the Gorilla Same for Koko the Gorilla Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11022687224911295424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4748832844228334272.post-22321426619681777042016-12-27T13:48:34.534-05:002016-12-27T13:48:34.534-05:00Actually maybe all creatures and humans are sapien...Actually maybe all creatures and humans are sapient but at different levels. I mean just beacuse an animal is sapient doesn't mean that they think and reason like humans do. Maybe people with mild and moderate mental disability have some sapient in them up to a certain level. Maybe not all reasoning and thinking skills aren't all the same.<br /><br /><br />"Studies of animal behavior (particularly of chimps and other apes) show that animals not only laugh and cry and care for each other, but can learn sign language and even have basic reasoning ability. In fact, Christian neuroscientist Malcolm Jeeves writes that “any attempt to set down a clear demarcation between the reasoning abilities of nonhuman primates and humans is found to have become blurred.”3 Obviously, humans have a much larger capacity to reason than animals, but reasoning is not a uniquely human ability. As neuroscientists and animal behaviorists learn more about animals, they see how traits appear in a rudimentary form at a level similar to human children.4" - See more at: http://biologos.org/common-questions/human-origins/image-of-god#sthash.gddRY7RI.dpufSeaearth ponyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17582765918943640894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4748832844228334272.post-28889512145450773062016-12-27T13:34:38.394-05:002016-12-27T13:34:38.394-05:00Well maybe sentience is conscious awareness. I mea...Well maybe sentience is conscious awareness. I mean there's a differences between reacting to the heat of the fireand feeling the heat of the fire. Seaearth ponyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17582765918943640894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4748832844228334272.post-46370058880000041752016-12-09T17:58:42.381-05:002016-12-09T17:58:42.381-05:00Change my mind on that one. After all we arn't...Change my mind on that one. After all we arn't very different from other animals.Seaearth ponyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17582765918943640894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4748832844228334272.post-1610644849492478542016-10-06T06:02:49.162-04:002016-10-06T06:02:49.162-04:00Actually, parrots understand enough of what they s...Actually, parrots understand enough of what they say to be considered as articulate as four-year-old humans. When I was three I talked at Scooby oo level, and I think the scientist who said Alex the African Gray has the linguistic skills of a three-year-old was referring to precocious three-year-olds.trisha gauravhttps://plus.google.com/117350798158125496326noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4748832844228334272.post-34483956961792550172016-08-15T18:57:17.846-04:002016-08-15T18:57:17.846-04:00I think we will have to evolve quickly to point E ...I think we will have to evolve quickly to point E if we are going to survive climate change, nuclear stockpiles, population exceeding carrying capacity, and a few other existential problems.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00945194598746931067noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4748832844228334272.post-23504228894442159202016-08-07T15:11:25.569-04:002016-08-07T15:11:25.569-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Seaearth ponyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17582765918943640894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4748832844228334272.post-7615526673614192872016-08-07T14:22:15.898-04:002016-08-07T14:22:15.898-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Seaearth ponyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17582765918943640894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4748832844228334272.post-77386300958719390182016-08-07T14:08:13.590-04:002016-08-07T14:08:13.590-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Seaearth ponyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17582765918943640894noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4748832844228334272.post-82274284565379256002016-08-07T13:53:11.624-04:002016-08-07T13:53:11.624-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Seaearth ponyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17582765918943640894noreply@blogger.com